James Carrion
is a former international director of the Mutual UFO Network, a
former signals intelligence analyst for the US Army and an IT
manager. He is the author of the recently released book, The Rosetta Deception,
in which he presents research focusing on the years 1946 and 1947 that suggests deception operations
conducted by the intelligence community likely effected public
perception of UFOs.
Carrion was interviewed by hosts of The Paracast Gene Steinberg and
Christopher O'Brien in a two and a half hour podcast published July 20. I think some of his perspectives deserve consideration, so let's jump
right in.
Just prior to
the 17-minute mark of the podcast, Carrion was asked where he first
saw evidence of deception in ufology.
"I would have to say
during the time I was in MUFON," he explained. "When I first
joined the organization, just like everybody else, I was very
curious. I wanted to know why this subject was still a mystery. The
more I started to look into it, the more I started to research it,
and the higher that I got up in the organization, the more I could
see that there was a large element of human deception involved.
"A lot of the cases, for example, that I investigated personally during MUFON,
there was no paranormal. There was no extraterrestrial aspect to a
lot of these cases. A lot of it boiled down to strange people passing
strange stories – and of questionable backgrounds – and really
trying to spin the whole rumor mill around the subject."
Carrion offered a couple
examples of such circumstances, then added, "We get a lot of these
strange characters that just pop into the UFO field. They make these
grandiose claims and none of it really pans out."
At the 2:06:30 point of
the interview, Carrion commented on MUFON in general. Are they
sincere or advancing disinformation?
"I don't think you can
really label it that easily. I think there are folks that genuinely
have – in the organization – that have a genuine interest in
knowing the truth. I think there are folks in the organization that
are very much true believers and they discard a lot of evidence
presented to them... I've fallen out of favor with MUFON in that they lost their way.
Their motto is the scientific investigation of UFOs and you would be
hard pressed to find anything that resembles science in that
organization.
"I think that's
reflected in these shows that they're doing on Discovery Channel. You
know, it's almost embarrassing to watch to see MUFON lower themselves
to repeating mythology and repeating folklore and repeating
outrageous allegations, and not sticking to what they should be
sticking to, which is pure science."
At 2:16:00, Carrion
addressed challenges inherent to investigating reported UFO
sightings.
"It mostly had to do
with deception. There was some level of deception. I call it 'unknown
deception' because I don't know if these folks that perpetrated it
had a personal reason for doing it – ya know, they just wanted to
go out there and perpetrate a hoax, if there was a money aspect to it
or there may be an intelligence agency aspect to it. All I know, it
was human involvement and nothing highly strange about it."
He continued, "I have
to say something that I think a lot of people in ufology may not like
to hear, and that is - I think the bottom line is - there are folks
that are in the field that call themselves ufologists, call
themselves researchers, investigative journalists – whatever they
want to call themselves, it doesn't really matter – but when their
modus operandi is to perpetuate the mystery instead of solving it, we
have a big issue. We have a big problem because the mystery will
never get resolved as long as these people are out there hawking
their latest theories or the latest controversy for controversy's
sake, or their latest witness, or their latest 'lead' investigation –
whatever you want to call it, it doesn't really matter – but if you
don't have a sincere interest in truth, if you're simply interested
in making the rounds of the UFO talk circuit... you're part of the
problem, not part of the solution."
Around the 1:29:00 point,
Carrion was asked if any UFOs are "real".
"Ya know, honestly I
can't tell you. I'm not saying that every single UFO sighting in 1946
or 1947 had to be Rosetta or our intelligence community. Who knows?
There are things out there in the universe we simply can't explain.
There are mysteries that we can't explain. All I know is that in such
a concentrated time frame we had very strange things going on that to
me fit more a Cold War and intelligence operation than fit any sort
of other explanation.
"Could there have been
other things flying around the atmosphere? Sure. What they are, I
don't know. All I know is that what I've been able to research and
what I have been able to uncover here shows more of a terrestrial
explanation."
1:36:30 Could some of
the early reported abductions have been mind control or drug
experiments?
"I would say that may
very well be, so I think it may be part of this mushrooming; this
inability to contain what started off as a myth that was created by
mundane hands."
1:53:00 Absent
deliberate deception, does any evidence remain that points to an
extraterrestrial explanation?
"Well, I can tell you
that my belief is that what the activity surrounded in 1946 and 1947
was, from my point of view, a strategic deception operation, so
definitely involving military intelligence agencies. That's a very
interesting question because this is where we get into the bucket
argument. What I call the bucket argument is that people who are
believers or that truly believe in UFOs and extraterrestrial
visitation, they want to have one bucket of evidence. Everything gets
thrown into this bucket, right? From the building of the pyramids to
the foo fighters to ghost rockets to Roswell to you name it, it all
goes into one large bucket. If you try to take anything out of that
bucket, well, no, no, no, you can't, because all the other stuff in
the bucket means it's extraterrestrial or there's 'proof' there.
"I think that is not
the way to approach the subject at all. I think you have to
compartmentalize your research. I think you have to focus your
research into certain discreet cases and discreet time frames, and,
really, you can't just pile up all the evidence and say it all makes
sense together. It simply doesn't, because, I'll be honest, and tell
you that I believe that there is life out there in the universe. I
think the possibility of life not being out there, life not
being out there, is absolutely nil. Statistically, there is life out
there on other planets.
"The question is have
they arrived here, either today, in the near past or in the very
distant past. It's very plausible that we had alien visitation way
back whenever, or it could be very plausible that we have alien
visitation today. So I'm not saying that's not a possibility. I'm not
saying that at all.
"What I am advocating
is that the early days of UFOs – the modern day UFO era, 1946-1947,
that time frame - I don't believe had anything to do with
extraterrestrial visitation."
2:04:00 Does the
intelligence community manipulate the public perception of ET and
possibly such circumstances as the Skinwalker Ranch to its advantage?
"Absolutely. I think
the large amount of mythology that surrounds Area 51, for example, a
lot of that was originated in the military as an operation to just
cover up what was really happening at Area 51, which was very mundane
in nature. So I think that the intelligence establishment uses the
phenomena, uses the mythology, uses the subject to cover up any
number of mundane operations.
"Ya know, I found that
my involvement with Robert Bigelow and Skinwalker Ranch – the fact
that I basically paid my own way to go there and was refused entry
on the ranch - that lack of transparency tells me that there is
something else going on. This whole subject is so muddied already,
what you don't need is more cover up, more deception, more
obfuscation.
"When I started seeing
that in the whole MUFON-BAASS relationship, that's when I started to
question what's really behind all of that and I voiced my opinions to
the board. All of it was history after that because they went behind
my back and renegotiated that contract.
"The bottom line being
that I think – and this is very well known – that if you think
you can dance with these intelligence agencies and they don't want
you to dance with them, you're never gonna dance. The bottom line is
there will be a way where you'll end up on the outside of that. I
think there is a very interesting dance happening between ufology and
the intelligence organizations that have more to do with what the
goals of the intelligence agencies are than a cover up of
extraterrestrial visitation."
More on Bigelow, BAASS
and MUFON at 2:22:00.
"There very much has to
be a large amount of transparency when you're going to be involved in
something of this nature. You can't hide anything. So, for example,
when Bigelow hid the source of his funding and would only reveal it
to John Schuessler on the MUFON board, that lack of transparency
really rubs me the wrong way. That tells me there's something being
hidden for a certain purpose and I don't want to be involved in
that."
More on the Skinwalker
Ranch at 2:29:00.
"You know, the
Skinwalker Ranch to me is interesting for a couple reasons. To me,
the mythology – and I'll call it mythology because I don't think
what's written in the book is accurate – this is based on personal
investigation from when I went there and was denied access to the
ranch, and then finding out that the brother of the original owner of
the ranch, before it was sold to Bigelow, was very adamant in saying
that nothing paranormal or strange in nature happened while his
brother was owner of the ranch. He knows this because he was on the
ranch many times. So I think there was a mythology built around that,
in the same way that a mythology gets built around a number of cases
that end up on the silver screen as a 'true story'."
Carrion also stated, "There's a mythology that was being built up. Why was it being
built up? I think it had somewhat to do with the mythology
surrounding Area 51. Somebody wants to continue that mythology. The
same way that the mythology is continued around Dulce, New Mexico,
and underground bases and a lot of the stuff that we hear about that
really has no substantiation.
"Just because a
billionaire owns the ranch, and a book is out there written by folks
that allegedly were on the ranch, doesn't make it true."
Summing up events
surrounding Bigelow and the Skinwalker Ranch, Carrion stated, "All
I know is somebody is obfuscating what is really going on, and I
don't think it has to do with protecting people's lives [concerning the lack of
access and lack of transparency]. I think it's something else."
2:08:00 How can the
average person separate signal from noise? What would Carrion tell a
young person getting involved in ufology?
"I would say, based on
my years of exposure, don't focus on the signal, focus on the noise.
There's a lot to be learned from the noise.
"It's almost – I've
said this quite a few times – the absence of evidence is as telling
as the presence of evidence. So if you go into this field with an
open mind, you put aside your beliefs, you really look to see why
there's so much noise surrounding this field. Pay attention to the
noise. Pay attention to the characters that are in the field.
"Make sure that you
check their sources. Make sure you check every single fact. You
better be a fact checker, because if you're not a fact checker,
you're gonna be at the recipient end of disinformation, hoaxes and
just being led down the primrose path that a lot of ufologists find
themselves.
"The bottom line is to
go out there with a sincere desire to know truth and to learn truth,
no matter how hurtful that truth may be, even if it hurts your own
beliefs. Look for that truth."
