Thursday, May 3, 2012

The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, Part Three of Three

Frank Purcell

Frank Purcell is a career process design engineer and has previously provided comment to The UFO Trail. He holds degrees in Chemical Engineering, Chemical Engineering Science, Control Systems Engineering and Computer Science.

He recently provided The UFO Trail with the following comments on the work of David Jacobs:
My understanding of Jacobs’ thesis is that alien abductions are real, and moreover that all abductions are centered on an alien agenda of making human/alien hybrids. The aliens are purportedly introducing the hybrids into society with the long term intent of take-over from within. At the same time, the aliens remain dominant with more power than the hybrids they’ve created.

I’m skeptical for these reasons:

1) There is no assurance that hypnosis as administered by Jacobs is professionally done. Jacobs is by training a historian and not a psychologist or scientist. He has done hypnosis on about 150 people that include, what he thinks, are 1100 abduction events. He readily admits that when he began hypnosis of subjects that he didn’t know what he was doing. He has said nothing yet to convince me that he somehow now knows what he is doing.

He admits being selective in deciding what is true and what isn’t from abductee reports. Truth is defined by him as consistency with what he or others (Hopkins) have heard from the abductees. Things reported consistent with other reports are taken as factual; things that are outliers are discarded, or not held to be true until collaboration is established with additional reports. He does allow for progression of things reported, such as the growth of hybrids to maturity, by consistency of the reports.

2) I know little of genealogy and defer to experts in that area. As far as I know it’s impossible to cross breed an elephant with a dog. If this is not an obstacle to the aliens because of their advanced technology, why then do they even bother with human DNA and not just directly engineer the results they want from either their own or from the human species?

3) The abduction count is really unknown. It could be very low to non-existent. Estimated ranges in ‘Alien Discussions’ are between 8/10,000 and 200/10,000. The higher number is based on what most scientists consider to be invalid (and far too high) extrapolations of a Roper poll.

4) The credibility of the aliens themselves (granting that they even exist) is suspect; what is supposedly learned from professed abductees as told to them by the aliens is suspect. We have almost unanimous reports that aliens are deceptive or misleading while the abductee is captured. Comments from supposed abductees indicate misleading or frivolous comments from aliens in response to straightforward questions. The anecdotal data indicates that aliens are at best secretive and at worst, dishonest. Moreover, if aliens have the ability to mentally control subjects they take, as Jacobs asserts, they could be programming into the subjects whatever disinformation they choose. Presumably, the aliens are working together and communicating among themselves. They could, for their own reasons, be inserting consistent and false memories in the abductees. I don’t know of any way to sort this out. We have ample data showing that aliens are furtive when reportedly observed on the ground outside of their saucers. Whatever their true agenda is, granting that they even have one, it seems doubtful that anyone, including Jacobs, has figured it out.

But the fifth reason, below, seems the most compelling for discarding the hypothesis altogether: there is a huge mismatch between the rate of world population growth and the maximum reasonable introduction of hybrids into the general populace.

5) The world population has been increasing by 78 million people per year, linearly, from 1960 through 2005 (R square for the data fit is 0.996).

If we use an abduction rate of 8/10,000 people (Miller, p. 232, Alien Abductions) in the 45 years from 1960 through 2005, there were 5.16 million abductions, or 114,700 abductions per year. Most of these abductions were repeats (by Jacobs own data, 1100 abductions for 150 people). If we arbitrarily assume 100 hybrids produced per person abducted, we get at most 160,000 hybrids introduced into the general populace per year. That is 0.2 % of the overall population growth, and only 0.002% of the total population. While a case might be made that a few of these hybrids are designated for positions of power (political office), that seems to be special pleading and it also does nothing to support the idea of biological takeover from within. The analysis above can be off by 2 orders of magnitude yet still make the case that Jacobs’ hypothesis utterly fails.

I asked Frank about how one might frame the logistics of so many supposed people literally being abducted.

"The high estimate of abduction rate, of 200/10,000 by the Roper poll," he replied, "would put 140 million saucers into the sky over a 45 year span, or around 3 million per year."

Considering said Roper poll only addressed the number of Americans allegedly being abducted, suffice it to say that would be a lot of air traffic over the US.

Dr. Tyler Kokjohn

Dr. Tyler Kokjohn is a Professor of Microbiology at the Midwestern University Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine. He is active in many projects, has previously provided work for The UFO Trail and maintains an informative YouTube channel.

He recently provided The UFO Trail with the following commentary on points concerning the work and statements of Dr. Jacobs:

Genetic technology offers the potential to confirm or refute explanatory hypotheses of the alien abduction mystery

DNA analysis methods have advanced to a point in which it is now feasible to determine the base sequences of complete genomes. The majority of completely sequenced organisms are microbes, but the list is expanding rapidly. The human genome sequence, over 3 billion base pairs, was completed roughly 10 years ago and is publicly accessible on the world wide web. The complete human genomic sequence and several sophisticated computer programs for its analysis are freely available to all. Investigators now have the opportunity to answer conclusively the questions involving genetics that would have been completely impossible to approach even ten years ago. Unfortunately, few abduction investigators have attempted to use these powerful tools.

Would genomic sequencing work require millions of dollars in funding to accomplish?

The original Human Genome Project required 13 years to carry out and required millions of dollars to support the direct sequencing efforts of multiple laboratories. At first glance, Lloyd Pye’s work with the Starchild skull would seem to confirm the idea that conducting genomic sequencing projects demands millions of dollars in funding. Clearly, some projects are expensive. Mr. Pye has undertaken one of the most technically difficult sequencing efforts ever attempted and it does seem likely to be costly. His investigation will require extracting DNA from bone samples estimated to be centuries old that are likely to have been contaminated as a consequence of handling and storage conditions. Any DNA recovered is probably going to be fragmented and harbor high levels of chemically degraded base sequences that may produce erroneous results. Assembling an authentic Starchild genomic sequence while avoiding misleading artifacts due to unavoidable age-related degradation and contamination with human material will be challenging and time-consuming. However, the complexity and unique challenges of the Starchild project makes it an unreliable gauge of the cost requirements for other genomic sequencing analyses using totally different sample sources.

Obtaining complete genomic sequences will not necessarily force investigators to raise millions of dollars. Today the costs estimates for such a project vary from $50,000 [L. Bonetta, Cell 141(6):917-919, 2010] to around $5,000 USD. In fact, it is hard to estimate the lowest price available at this time since companies now tout technologies yielding complete genome sequences in a single day for under $1,000. The thousand-dollar cost level represents a point at which genomic data might begin to be used on a routine basis in medical practice.

Other powerful approaches to acquire genetic evidence exist

Genomic sequence analysis is one approach to the problem, but it is important to bear in mind that far less costly alternative techniques to analyze DNA trace evidence are now available. These methods are used on a routine basis to establish paternity, identify human remains and settle a host of other legal issues. The extraordinary power of the methods is well illustrated by the story of a sailor killed in the attack on Pearl Harbor whose remains were definitively identified sixty-eight years later using a sample of his DNA.

The DNA source? Letters home sent in envelopes he had sealed by licking. 

The development of methods able to reliably attribute the origins of DNA traces present in crime scene samples is now challenging common notions of faith in the justice system. DNA testing of evidence collected for criminal cases instigated through the efforts of The Innocence Project has resulted in the exoneration of 289 imprisoned persons in the U.S., including 17 who were on death row.

This suggests that if someone has been visited by hybrids, important evidence might still be collected even after the fact.
Two critical points are illustrated by these examples. First, the analytic methods are extraordinarily sensitive and even tiny samples may be informative. Second, under some circumstances, DNA evidence may persist for decades. Moreover, it is possible to obtain important genetic data using materials obtained under the complex and challenging physical conditions associated with crime scenes. This suggests that if someone has been visited by hybrids, important evidence might still be collected even after the fact. Proactive preparation and instruction of persons experiencing repeated contacts seems warranted.

The method(s) deployed by a researcher depend on several factors including the precise nature of the sample. For example, fetal DNA is present in the blood of the mother during pregnancy providing a non-invasive means to reveal genetic disorders. Remarkably, cells derived from the developing infant have been discovered to live on in the body of the birth mother for decades after delivery (M. Barinaga, Science 296:2169-2172, 2002). In principle, an investigator aware of subjects harboring an implanted embryo or a history of abduction and consequent pregnancy/termination could now seek the critical corroborating genetic evidence through genomic sequencing or other methods. Although complex and costly, if there is no other means to collect samples, such efforts might be necessary. Dr. Jacobs should be able to review his files to identify terminated pregnancy cases and inquire as to the possibility for additional testing. Alternatively, he could be alert for the emergence of any new instances of implantation and seek to uncover direct evidence of hybrid fetuses through blood testing as opportunities arise.

Is the difficult and challenging forensic approach to evidence collection even necessary?

It now seems there may be another, far easier route to clinching corroborating genetic evidence. A clandestine alien abduction program involving the involuntary participation of humans and callous disregard for their autonomy and dignity as described by Dr. Jacobs seems obviously nefarious. Consequently, abduction researchers would seem to need techniques like those used by criminal investigators to uncover evidence and build a case. But the situation may have changed completely with the recent pronouncement by one abduction researcher that she knows human-alien genetic hybrids personally. Obviously, such individuals represent the ideal subjects to corroborate the hypothesis of alien genetic adulteration of humans. An analysis could be done quite cheaply using the services companies like 23andMe provide for ancestry testing based on patterns of short terminal repeats in DNA. The procedure is simple; order a kit, spit into the tube, seal it and mail to the company. Results will be available within two to three weeks.

Are the differences between ‘human stage’ entities and authentic humans so subtle it will be impossible to distinguish them?

If they are human in every way except for sleep cycle and ability to control others it would seem so. That makes it critical for Dr. Jacobs to search his records for cases in which he has detected extra gestational unit pregnancies to seek any genetic evidence he can find of the putative earlier stage hybrids (with potentially great genetic distance from humans) he described in The Threat.

But there may be other means to recognize even those individuals and confirm their unusual attributes. Psychic (psi) abilities are uncommon or extremely weak in most persons. But these almost-human entities would seem likely to score high in assessments of telepathic ability like the Ganzfeld test. Perhaps they won’t cooperate. In that event, investigators might look at electroencephalogram (EEG) traces or subject them to functional imaging procedures that follow brain blood flow or glucose consumption in response to stimulation. Simply identifying one individual with authentic, high level psi abilities and discovering the brain region(s) enabling such capacities would create a sensation.

Looking at gene sequences is important, but it may not provide the whole story. Humans and chimpanzees are 95% identical (or greater) at the gene level. What is it that makes the two species so different? Part of it lies in variations in precisely how, when and where the genes are expressed. It is now possible to detect and quantify those differences directly. Perhaps such techniques could reveal the alterations in almost-human entities.

What if the aliens don’t even have DNA?

Combined with the assertion that the latest phase of hybrids are human in every way, it would seem to enormously complicate the notion that this is a program of genetic colonization.

When people say they’ve had sex with aliens, with grey aliens, it can’t be true.”

Given the reported lack of external genitalia, that would seem to be obvious. However, the lack of knowledge here should prompt a degree of caution. So, what have these individuals experienced? The aliens may have no DNA, but if physical encounters have taken place between aliens and/or hybrids with these persons, important evidence might be discoverable. Informational polymers may encompass more than the RNA and DNA familiar to biologists today. Scientists have recently taken the first steps toward creating an alternative means to manage genetic information (G. F. Joyce, Science 336:307-308, 2012). Perhaps the reported sexual encounters will leave behind traces of novel informational polymers. In addition, physical contact, sexual or otherwise, might leave traces of blood, cells and even bacteria or viruses that could (in principle) be revealed by microscopy. It is important to note here that residual bacterial skin communities on touched objects have been matched to the originating individuals using forensic molecular analysis methods (N. Fierer et al. 2010). Perhaps completely unique bacteria and/or viruses could be cultured from suitable samples. It would not take long to confirm whether or not they are unique.

Why are they doing that?”

The present hypotheses offer little insight into the overarching strategy and purpose behind abductions, harvesting of reproductive cells, fetal implantations/extractions described in The Threat and in other venues by Dr. Jacobs. The new assertion that entities “human in every way” are now emerging is particularly baffling. What were all the other phases about? If the final product was to be human with few genetic modifications, a complete blueprint was right there in the first misappropriated germ cells. Better, and far easier for the aliens, for the past ten years the entire genomic sequence has been available to anyone with a web browser.

Perhaps some introspection and analysis is now in order to assess the level of confidence one can reasonably hold that investigators have uncovered anything resembling reality. Much of the present abduction narrative hinges on the use of hypnotic regression to uncover memories. How reliable are those methods? The experience with The Innocence Project reveals how carefully one must weigh witness testimony and corroborate it with objective evidence whenever possible. Witness accounts and conclusions based solely on them can sometimes be completely and tragically wrong.

Where do we stand?

The math is stark; on our little home planet each organism harbors multiple uninvited invaders. In terms of sheer numbers, parasitism is the dominant life strategy on Earth. Further, examining the genes of ourselves and our kin, we find our genomes are frequently invaded, occupied and modified by viruses. These unauthorized changes are not always to our advantage. The idea of genetic colonization has a clear biological precedent.

Multiple approaches are now available for investigators seeking direct, objective genetic corroboration of the alien abduction accounts recovered primarily through hypnosis. These tools are powerful and precise. Despite the low cost requirements, genetic tools remain underutilized by abduction investigators. Perhaps a new generation of abduction researchers will attempt to challenge an explanatory narrative that has remained weakly scrutinized and little changed for decades. Hypotheses that are not confronted with evidence and evaluated in light of the results for their adequacy are little more than stories. When scientists fail to discover supporting evidence for a hypothesis, it is modified or abandoned outright. Allowing unsubstantiated ideas to persist untested or ignoring their inconsistencies against objective facts will ultimately impede all progress toward greater understanding. Creative destruction is the essential aspect of a healthy scientific process.

Comprehending the alien abduction mystery will demand investigators willing to utilize new tools and judge hypotheses objectively against the resulting data. Such efforts are long overdue.

Additional References:

Dark White. Jim Schnabel (1994), Hamish Hamilton

The Abduction Enigma. Kevin Randle, Russ Estes and William P. Cone (1999), Forge

Disclosure – I declare that I have no competing financial interests or connections with 23andMe


Final Thoughts

As we have now seen, academia does not turn its back on ufology or even the controversial abduction phenomenon to nearly the extent we are commonly led to believe; ufology simply tends to reject the reviews it receives. As many suggest, a more constructive and productive approach might be to integrate such critical review into shaping the future methodologies and directions of abduction-research, more effectively serving the UFO community, its witnesses and strengthening its commitments to accuracy and accountability.

It is unreasonable to expect academics or even casually interested parties to accept extraordinary claims without direct evidence. It is simply irrational to make a leap, for example, from the fact people report encounters with beings to the suppositions of detailed physiological and neurological make-ups of such beings.

One could reasonably correlate tactics demonstrated by such researchers as Dr. David Jacobs with what is known in the profession of sales as 'negotiating the trade.' A skilled salesperson will employ the technique to lead a sales prospect into negotiating trade-in value, indirectly yet effectively establishing the sale itself is imminent without having ever actually clarified the product will be purchased.

Similarly, when we are drawn into considerations of elaborate and increasingly convoluted tales involving multiple stages of hybrid development, their reproductive procedures, their complexly deceptive intentions and so on, we are vulnerable to overlooking it has never been factually established the hybrids or their alleged alien creators even so much as exist. As negotiating the trade assumes the sale, negotiating supposed conditions of alien behavior assumes the alien.

There may very well be some type of currently unexplained phenomena at the heart of ufology and its accompanying claims of alien abduction. I do not know and I do not claim to be able to conclusively say.

I do feel confidently justified to say, however, an extremely large portion of the claims asserted as factual and the resulting abduction dogma, in reality, cannot be substantiated whatsoever. What this may very well indicate in select instances is that individuals legitimately experiencing paranormal circumstances are being fed inadequate and unreasonable explanations: square peg, round hole.

Perhaps there are indeed events of interest taking place, yet current prevailing explanations are simply incorrect. Such a possibility, if so, would of course go a long way towards accounting for why such current alleged explanations chronically remain outside the scope of verification: they are wrong.

If such perspectives make me a debunker, close-minded, in denial aliens are among us or any of the rest of the criticisms that have become standard fare, so be it. I say it makes me a realist and sincerely interested in and committed to the identification of legitimate, actual explanations.

I choose suspension of judgment pending confirmation of facts. I choose to verify the value of the product prior to negotiating the trade.

In the case of the core concepts set forth and asserted within the research of David Jacobs, I can currently identify no valid reasons to accept his interpretations and resulting claims as accurate. Given the extremely disproportionate amount of supposition to demonstrated fact contained within his work, it is my strong opinion there is no justification for accepting his alien-related information as factual as compared to recognizing it as, at best, speculation requiring much, much more competent investigation.


The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, Part One of Three

The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, Part Two of Three


  1. Thank you, Jack, for approaching this controversy from a different angle.

    1. I am glad you found the series interesting. I respect your work and value your opinion, so thank you, Gary. I appreciate it.

  2. Hiya JB, I'm guessing the lack of replies is due to the article being reasonable? No tub-thumping and no overt aggression towards the abduction community. No racing to conclusions either - judgement suspended. As it should be.

    I enjoyed the comments about 'credibility of aliens' and have wandered that particular thought-path a few times. Let's say, for sake of argument, there really are Folk from Elsewhere? Their credibility is non-existent, in my opinion, and shouldn't be trusted. Decades of hide-and-seek, mixed messages and absurd warnings are hardly *honest* activities; divisive and obfuscating maybe. Don't we all deplore that kind of self-serving dishonesty in our politicians?

    Likewise, the abduction community's popular theme of attributing *special knowledge* to purported aliens and essentially abrogating their free will are the familiar actions of victims of abuse. How many kids and spouses have made excuses for their abusers? 'He only does it because he loves me so much!'

    As for Dr Jacobs? Given his alleged hybrids and aliens are no more than one degree of separation from him, one wonders why such sophisticated sneaky bastards wouldn't simply reorganise his mind or spirit him away altogether?

    Potentially faulty memories being recovered by unreliable processes exercised by biased and unqualified practitioners only adds to the highly-mediated mess.

    A genetic approach would, in theory, provide a single chain of evidence that could stand by itself. It wouldn't need the intervention of human nature wrapping its imagination around it. A DNA sequence with distinctly alternative gene-markers would just be that; it wouldn't be evidence of the mythological BS that has accreted around some fairly tenuous claims. Sadly, it *would* be exploited by vested interests to continue to push their shtick and for others to press their 'anti-shtick.' I enjoy Tyler's approach in this area.

    Of course, if there really were telepathic super-humans hanging around, we'd never need to know about it. They could waltz in and take over nations quite easily which would make all this genetic cloak-and-dagger stuff even less likely. Kind of like digging a long tunnel to sneak into a building with an open door.

    1. Excellent points, K! Such issues must indeed eventually be competently addressed and resolved, else the current state of prevailing circular logic and ad hoc arguments will continue.

      I am very glad you found the series of posts worth the read. I also appreciate you voicing your thoughts. Thanks!

  3. A well written and interesting trilogy Jack, not only do you raise valid questions but you also propose _possible_ solutions. Free of emotion and presented as logical fact-based reasoning, exactly the way it should be (note to self!!).

    1. Thank you, Michael! I am very glad you found the posts interesting. I respect and appreciate your work, so I value your opinion.

  4. For anyone who is interested, I have provided information about Dr. Jacobs' human research subject abuse, as well as about his practice of engaging in overt leading and suggestion while conducting hypnosis, on my website at

    The evidence that I have made public includes audio from the actual hypnosis sessions that Dr. Jacobs conducted with me.

    It is my hope that the evidence that I have provided, as a former research subject of Dr. Jacobs, of the reality of Dr. Jacobs' research which he has been successful at covering up for decades partly with the assistance of vested interests in the UFO field, might help to prevent future research subjects being exploited, abused, and left with traumatic false hypnotic memories.

  5. Jack,

    The old Roper Poll seems to be something of a red herring used here, imo. I take it, it's because Jacobs & Hopkins were a part of creating it. I don't accept its results as accurate and I'm certainly no debunker. I have no idea how many abductees/experiencers/close encounter witnesses there are (or as one of the prolific posters in your former UFOMania Forum would refer to us repeatedly as "tin-foil hat types". <:^0 )

    As for an expectation of radar picking up all UFOs - that seems to based on an assumption that UFOs do not have an ability or technology to be undetectable or stealth. And, even the ones that are tracked and the info actually manages to get publicized - debunkers attempt to tear the radar readings apart.

    Something else that ought to be considered is the interesting reports, ranging from CE1s to CE5s , where the UFO is seen to appear instantly and/or disappear instantly; as well as some cases where the UFO fades away. [there are also reports - and videos - of ufos appearing to change size and form.] It's not as if you're going to be out mowing your lawn, gazing around your neighborhood seeing more UFOs than you can shake a stick at. ;-)

    An interesting account, included in the COMETA report, of a ufo sighting, radar tracking it and the object disappearing:
    A couple of quotes from the interview with Jean-Charles Duboc (PIC) of Air-France flight AF-3532, regarding the 1/28/1994 UFO sighting also observed by co-pilot Valerie Chauffour and the chief steward....."We continued to observe it when it gradually merged with the environment. We saw it becoming translucid, transparent, diluted in space. That was absolutely amazing.".....
    "I took note of the radar recordings by the CODED (Operational Center of Air Defense). There is a very curious characteristic for the trajectory of the UFO, as it shows that it would have almost collidedus. The minimal distance on the recording is less than 1 Nm, that is to say 10 seconds of flight.".....

    As for testing for fetal cells that remain in women who've been pregnant- What about miscarriages. A woman can miscarry early in pregnancy and not even know she was pregnant. How do you determine the difference between the human fetal cells and "hybrid" fetal cells? And, who will pay for these tests?

    No other ufo/abduction investigator has done dna testing (except Bill Chalker, Australia) that I'm aware of - and John Mack, an M.D. and Psychiatrist, who was associated with Jacobs(and Hopkins) certainly should have thought of it - he also had the advantage of being at Harvard and near M.I.T.

    It's obvious that in their hey-day Jacobs, Mack and Hopkins weren't going the dna evidence collection route. But Hopkins, whatever any of us may think of him - to his credit - did collect backyard evidence (ground/soil/plant/photos) from the 'Intruders at Copley Woods'/Kathy Davis (Deb Kauble) case and had them scientifically evaluated. Also Kauble experienced classic symptoms of radiation sickness, which were documented, and her dog died a few months after the backyard abduction, which was documented (dog was present during the incident). She also wrote her own book, which included even more high strangeness than Hopkins included in his.


  6. - Cont. pt.2 -

    And as for Mack, here is a disturbing excerpt of him leading a research subject named Peter (who had over 9 hypnosis sessions with him). If John Mack didn't know better as far as dna testing he also didn't know better leading a person he has under hypnosis. I had no idea the level of leading Jacobs, Mack and Hopkins did with their research subjects under hypnosis. Youtube provides a wealth of documentaries that many of us may not have seen. This is from a Canadian documentary.

    Here, under hypnosis, you can hear Mack actually arguing with Peter - over a highly ethical & moral issue the two men are at odds with each other over. Peter, under hypnosis, somehow manages to argue back. The topic of hybrids comes up by Mack too. A 1993 regression - Go to 3:07 to 5:43 on the video for this part.

    As for sleep disorder testing I think anyone who's waking up and seeing hideous grey 'aliens' surrounding them, paralyzing them and their bedmate, floating them through a window or wall into a craft and depositing them back later should of course utilize the possibility of getting a referral into a sleep disorder clinic.

    I don't think that will solve their problem, but perhaps some other sleep disorder might be found - like Sleep Apnea - and save a person's life....In the U.S., sleep disorder clinic testing is expensive and would have to be approved by ones insurance company, which would mean lots of paperwork to fill out by ones M.D. to get the referral in and covered by the individual's insurance company. If not covered, I would think the costs would be several thousand of dollars.


  7. -continue, pt. 3-

    As I'd previously written, I'm supportive of genetic testing for people who publically claim to be "hybrids" (you can find a few people, through online searches who add this to their new-aged type websites). If they're public enough to have their own websites, claim to be "hybrids" and use their own names, they shouldn't have a problem agreeing to genetic testing.

    And, as I'd mentioned in an earlier post, since psychotherapist Barbara Lamb is a friend of a "hybrid" she should be contacted to ask the individual to cooperate with genetic testing. Also the men and women that Lamb presented for an interview (it's on youtube) who claim to have husbands, wives and children on other planets. These people, who've gone public, might be willing to be tested and also to have at-home evidence collection kits.

    Of course money is an issue, so who will pay for all of this, if anyone agrees to be tested? And where will the results and information go? (hopefully not into some hidden place ala a Bob Bigelow/Dr. Evil type - who keeps the info just for his own secretive purposes). Transparancy is very important.

    As for experiencers/abductees, anecdotal evidence, so far, suggests a higher number ( compared to the general population) have blood types with an RH Negative factor. Also a higher number with Celtic and Native-American ancestry (imo, the latter doesn't mean much though for the U.S. and Canada, because of the huge immigration from Ireland and subsequent intermarrying with indiginous people). So adding dna scientific evidence (a common marker we may all share?) would be an amazing breakthrough. Still, I'd like to read specifics on how the project would proceed and be funded.

    I also think it would be intellectually honest if skeptics that show such tenacious interest in this particular topic would share their theory or opinion on UFOs/aliens. What lights the fire in their belly, so to speak? If a skeptic doesn't think it's possible for UFOs to exist (as anything other than misidentified aircraft, weather anomalies, insects, birds, balloons, hallucinations, hoaxes ect.) then state it. If a skeptic doesn't think it's possible non-human beings (and I'm not referring to animals in our world) might be interacting with human beings, then state it. Otherwise this just might appear to be an ongoing obsessive attack upon Jacobs and that ultimately may play right into his hands of being the retired put-upon professor who is relentlessly attacked. We all need to consider that { including us "tin-foil hat types" as well ;-) }.

    ~ Susan

    1. Susan - offering some clarifications...

      Won’t the inevitable propspect of miscarriages create problems? Exactly that situation was one of the first bits of evidence something unexpected and remarkable had been discovered regarding the consequences of pregnancy (Science 296:2169-2172 [2002]). Pregnant volunteers partioipating in a prenatal diagnosis study were discovered to harbor cells with Y chromosomes (male) while simultaneous direct amniocentesis exams revealed they were presently carrying a female child (XX genotype). Checking to see if these women had already given birth to male children, half did. The other half revealed they had previously terminated pregnancies. Taking full account of prior medical history will definitely improve the odds of discovery, but the existence of miscarriage (known and unknown) presents no insurmountable obstacle to finding evidence of implanted hybrid entities. I suggest that investigators specifically begin with a focus on cases in which XY cells (male) are found in abductees reporting no history of male children.

      Could alien-human genetic hybrids be recognized by this method? It’s one approach among several possibilities that remains untried.

      Who would conduct such work? Dr. Jacobs revealed in this interview he had attempted genetic analyses several times. His University probably has either a biotechnology center of its own or access to a regional consortium, so, in principle, both knowledgeable collaborators and technical resources have been available to him. He will have to fill in the details concerning the specifics of his work in this area.

      Who would pay? That is a toughie. Some types of investigation would be demanding and expensive, although the costs are falling rapidly. But, perhaps the more intensive and costly efforts are now unwarranted. If other investigators know the whereabouts of hybrids, it would seem undertaking challenging forensic efforts or investigating past pregnancies are unnecessary. Collect some spit from a hybrid, mail it to 23andMe for an ancestry determination and claim the Nobel prize. Hard to imagine Dr. Jacobs or, worse for him, someone else, has not recognized the extraordinary potential opportunity presented to confirm his ideas.

      Where do I stand? In my opinion, the hypotheses of Dr. Jacobs are erroneous and those seeking hard genetic proof of a clandestine effort by intelligent aliens to adulterate the human gene pool are embarked on a fool’s errand. May they prove me wrong.

    2. Hi Tyler,

      Thanks for answering some of my inquiries.

      As for Jacobs, you and I know he likely won't pay for genetic tests and/or utilize Temple U. (where he's retired from now anyway) even if "in principle" he has access to testing facilities, which no one really knows. It's an exercise in futility to continually ask this of him, which is why I suggested contacting public "hybrids" (newage oriented websites have lots of them) and hypnotherapist Barbara Lamb who claims a friendship with a "hybrid".

      You and I know Jacobs "hybrids" likely originated from 'Elizabeth' the apparently highly manipulative research subject as well as his stenographer(<-not sure if that's the correct word for the work she did for Jacobs), whether or not he believes her or is playing along with her.

      After I'd read 'The Threat' about 14 yrs. ago I realized Jacobs went over the slippery slope. In comparison his earlier book 'Secret Life' seemed tame and almost scholarly. John Keel warned of this devolution of personality and character happening when one allows themselves to be continually immersed in the subject of ufos/aliens. It's occult (and I don't mean from the simplistic Christian Fundie p.o.v.).

      I could see you head up a dna investigation (with test results made public [except for home addresses and last names] as you recommended-

      Perhaps a group of people broken down into three categories, with a mix of male and female & age ranges [but at least 18 yrs. of age] - 1. People who claim to be hybrids and are willing to be tested..... 2. People who claim or suspect they're Abductees/Close Encounter Experiencers/Contactees who are willing to be tested..... 3. People who claim neither 1 nor 2 and are willing to be tested.

      Also you creating and sending out at-home evidence collection kits - re. the kit you've set up and sent (or are in the process of) for the abductee we both know of who has publically claimed conscious, in-house visitations from "Shroudman".

      For people who can't afford testing or a kit, I've seen some ufo/abduction oriented websites ask for donations for projects. For example Paratopia, which you're very familiar with, asked for donations for the longterm 'Marley Woods' project a couple of years or so ago, to help cover costs for lead investigator Ted Phillips and his co-investigators.

      And here are just a couple of possibilities I came across in the past day or so that might intrigue you.

      In his recent article Streiber writes of a "hybrid" encounter. Now Streiber has been on your Project Core colleagues radio podcast a few times, so perhaps you could use that entre to contact him to gain access to this supposed hybrid or any other hybrids he may know. Personally I don't take much of what Streiber says or writes seriously because he's flip-flopped (to put it kindly) on so many of his accounts.


      Thomas and Matthew Reed, life-long abductees, have written and given interviews indicating they're trying to make a genetic connection (so far they've come across high numbers of RH Negatives in their family). Their mother and maternal grandmother were also abductees.

      There is an email address on Tom Reed's website. He and his brother (and their children - if at least 18 yrs. of age) might be ammenable to being genetically tested (perhaps they already have been and just need to share results with a larger group in a scientifically controlled study).

      If you could pull this off and find
      some common genetic marker, it's you who may win the Nobel Prize. ;-)

      ~ Susan

    3. My plan is to allow those making the claims to produce the evidence and secure a well deserved Nobel.

      You offered interesting suggestions and maybe someone will pursue them. In addition, you touched on something quite important regarding privacy.

      Anyone considering volunteering for a study is advised that some analyses are enormously powerful. Consequently, I recommend they work only with investigators who guarantee full subject confidentiality, follow a strict policy of publishing only anonymous datasets and are willing to provide explicit procedures stipulating the disposition of all samples and data after the study is completed.

      The problem is whether or not definitive evidence of aliens is discovered using genetic tests, depending on the circumstances and techniques employed, much sensitive data could be revealed about the sample provider. Information concerning ancestry, genetic mutations and risks for developing dread future conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease might be uncovered. Think about the implications and your personal preferences before providing any samples.

      Several commercial options now exist to have affordable DNA analyses performed with complete confidentiality. Once results are in hand, individuals are entirely free to decide how much, if anything, they wish to unveil in public. I urge caution and suggest no personally identifiable genetic information ever be published nor should anyone even disclose they had sought data about alien abductions. Fair or not, persons revealing their involvement in such activities risk repercussions.

      Take time to consider all the risks and make wise decisions.

  8. Tyler to me: "My plan is to allow those making the claims to produce the evidence and secure a well deserved Nobel." - - -

    Why am I not surprised. All that bitchin' an' a moanin' from you about Jacobs (and Hopkins) on various blog posts and on your ReWinky Youtube channel (like your rap video making fun of Jacobs - hybrids and panties et al - which you had circulated but then took down I noticed...awe).

    Well then, at least I await your evaluation from the evidence kit you're making to collect proof for your abductee/Project Core colleague's "Shroudman". But, who am I kidding - that's not going to happen either. ;-)

    ~ Susan

  9. Notwithstanding the frustration and puzzlement over so little getting done, the burden of proof remains squarely on the hypothesis proponent. I predict that failure to produce the requisite data will ultimately falsify an unfortunately long-lived hypothesis that had remained unchallenged for too many years.

    Part and parcel of the scientific method is direct confrontation of hypothesis against objective evidence. People seeking answers to the alien abduction mystery may wish to ask a few questions of their own regarding the scientific merits of some research. The good news is that whether or not any of the big name investigators initiates immediate action, the clock is ticking rather quickly. Genomic sequencing and gene profiling are poised to enter routine medical practice soon. And individuals with questions will be able to get them answered by their physicians – with confidence on a confidential basis. If hundreds of thousands or millions of hybrids are among us now, the evidence will come out soon. Or not. Because I am offering personal opinions and not facts, I must acknowledge the possibility that forthcoming experiments may prove me wrong. So be it. I await the data, but am not exactly holding my breath.

    You are correct on Shroudman - my consulting work is confidential and I reveal neither details of the investigation nor any data to uninvolved third parties. Any use and/or publication of the information is entirely at the client’s discretion.

    Yes, I certainly have had fun skewering some major figures of ufology and abudctology. There may be more videos, I haven’t gotten to everyone yet. Please be patient.

    The “Alien Hybrids Are After ME!” video posed in a much different form some of the same apparent contradictions covered in Kandinsky’s cogent comments. Why would telepathic aliens executing a systematic, covert assault and battery on all humankind tolerate exposure of their misdeeds? Why would anyone fearful of alien retribution make frequent public lecture appearances discussing their activities? If you review the video you will see that it mentions no names, the specific interpretations and connections depend on the individual – another lesson. Tied to an ephemeral event and gathering few hits, I took it down, but it is now live again at Thanks for the publicity. By the way, I will reveal the source of the underwear used in the video at a date and time of my choosing after another (unnamed) investigator takes full responsibility for his actions. Don’t hold your breath for that one either.

  10. Tyler to me:"By the way, I will reveal the source of the underwear used in the video at a date and time of my choosing after another (unnamed) investigator takes full responsibility for his actions. Don’t hold your breath for that one either." - - -

    I never asked.

    Girlfriend, I just assumed those fierce panties
    were yours. ;-)

    ~ Susan

  11. Dr. Tyler Kokjohn said:

    "Why would anyone fearful of alien retribution make frequent public lecture appearances discussing their activities?"

    Now THAT is the million dollar question.

    In my opinion, Dr. Jacobs' actions, that include his continuing his public speaking engagements as normal, show that he was not afraid of alien retribution at all. If so, it raises many unanswered questions about what he was actually doing.

    1. Conversely, the mysterious deaths of other researches tends to lend credence to their (unpopular) non-alien explanations for UFO phenomena...

  12. 'If so, it raises many unanswered questions about what he was actually doing.'

    I think his Wily T Coyote plan to 'put one over' on the evil aliens was considered and wilful. He seriously wanted you to convince them that he didn't believe in aliens. He especially didn't want them to suspect he'd been writing books and touring on the blue-prints of their master-plan for world domination. In interviews he made frequent asides that he feared for the futures of his children. He's scared.

    Thus, it appears he believes in what he says and his actions have been dictated by the belief.

    This is the part where we get a little insight though. The disconnect between his beliefs and actuality haven't caused him to question his rationale. He hasn't asked himself questions. He's asserted that he ' longer has the luxury of disbelief.' He needs to explain the unexplained with unexplained *2.

    Now, I wouldn't dare to throw diagnoses of mental illness around. Let's leave that to real ufologists! However his critical thinking is irrational. Reality is at odds with his message, fears and beliefs. He's so wedded to these beliefs that he can't see it. I suspect 'what he's actually doing' is demonstrating a decline in his critical faculties - long term exposure to conspiracy theory can do this to people.

  13. Finally got a chance to read this.

    While I appreciate the above discussion, I suggest that most of it is undeserved. The reason: crap evidence.

    Almost all of the abduction baloney rests on the books of a few horribly gullible and silly people who have never made any worthwhile attempt to find real evidence, even though there are numerous avenues that could be followed.

    On the other hand, there is ample evidence that certain folks can be lead into false beliefs with ease by idiots like Jacobs.

    He hasn't made a case worth discussing and revelations about his practices show him to be a bumbling dumbass.


  14. Hi,
    I know I am quite late to this discussion, but I only recently heard about your blog from Paul Kimball's Facebook post about your interview on Binnall of America. I just listened to the interview last night, by the way, and was pleased to hear your rational and sane approach to UFO "research" and the people who claim to conduct it.

    I was going to email you because I wanted to comment on Dr. Jacob's "research" and the most likely reason that Temple University didn't sanction him, but I see you don't publish your email address, so my somewhat long-winded explanation will be written here (sorry in advance!).

    A bit of background, so you will know how I am acquainted with academic research, and also with UFO "stuff" (for lack of a better word)....

    When I was a stay-at-home mom, from the late 1970s to the early 1990s, I read a lot of books, and quite a few of them were UFO books. I have always had an interest in forteana (and was also a reader of Fortean Times), and had seen some things I could not (and still cannot) explain, so I naturally gravitated towards both fiction and non-fiction books about high strangeness. Just wanted to make my familiarity with the UFO community clear - I read a lot of books, including Dr. Jacobs', but I am not nor have I ever been a part of that community.

    Now the research part...

    When I went back to college in the early 1990s, I got a BS and then an MS in psychology. My field was experimental psychology, and I was not only involved in research but also in writing up proposed experiments for review by the U of Memphis Institutional Review Board.

    All American universities have an IRB, and you must submit a detailed explanation of your research, how it will be conducted, why it is being conducted, and how it will affect the research participants. This last bit is important because I can assure you, if there is even a hint of harm to a participant, the IRB will not allow you to conduct it.

    This goes as far even as what are known as 'deceptive experiments', such as asking participants which pictures of faces they like (and telling them it is to assess their attraction to hair styles or something innocuous), but really having them pick pictures they prefer out of different races of people (so, really studying attitudes about race).

    The IRB will not even allow experiments like these unless you submit the debriefing you will give the participants - which also always includes a statement that if the participant indicated at the debriefing that they were upset by the experiment in any way, that the department would provide counseling. You also must submit your informed consent form for approval. This is always a very detailed form and assures the participant that they can leave the experiment at any time, for any reason.

    I wanted to comment on Temple University's lack of involvement in all this. The reason Dr. Jacobs, I suspect, was never called to task about his "research methods", was because he did not do any of it on university property. It is my understanding that he conducted his hypnosis sessions in his home, not his office at Temple. Consequently, their hands were tied. I have not talked to Temple, but I can assure you that their IRB standards are the same as other universities', because they have to comply with federal regulations regarding human research participants ("Federal Policy for the Protection of Human Subjects". HHS website

    Just wanted to clear that up. My personal opinion of Dr. Jacobs and his so-called research is that he did, in fact, harm a great many people. His field is not psychology anyway, and he had no business conducting either research or clinical sessions with anyone. I could write a lot more about this, because I ended up working as a therapist after I graduated, but my comment is already way too long.

    Thanks for reading this. And, by the way, great blog!!

    1. Hi, muse, and thanks for your interest in the blog and subject matter. Much appreciated.

      You bring up some valid and interesting points. Thanks for taking the time to comment.

      My email address can be accessed through my blogger profile:

      ...but comments on the blog are appreciated as well.

      Thanks again for your interest. Your support is appreciated!

    2. You're very welcome!

      I think you are very patient when dealing with many of these folks in the UFO community, and you take a rational approach as well. It is a pet peeve of mine that some of them call themselves "researchers", but as you pointed out on the Binnall broadcast, they do not do research at all. Your point about the lack of peer-reviewed articles is especially important, and it's clear that most things written about UFOs etc would never pass a review to get published. Anecdotes and blurry pictures do not constitute research. Though, like you, I would not be dismissive of those things, if the person really believes they experienced them, I just wouldn't call it "science".

      I hope someday to be able to actually attend a 'conference' and talk to some of these folks myself, but until then it's nice to be able to read about them from a sane and intelligent perspective!

  15. Just to clarify after "Brownie's" unsolicited swipe at me: At no point did I ever contend that I *could* gather anything from the shrouded man I encountered. I left wide berth for the question of the tangible nature, as well as encouraging caution at taking anything gleaned from those experiences at face value. Everything within this phenomena being elusive and suspect, this was only common sense.

    Susan obviously took offense to uncensored dispensation of my experience, and has decided it's best to marginalize me when she sees fit.

    Of course had Brownie experienced anything similar she'd be singing a different tune. Her attitude is a big reason why people don't relate the utterly bizarre experiences openly and honestly - which is something I've worked to change by exposing my own experiences without edit.

    Unfortunately it also exposes one to her brand of ridicule.

    I believe my only response to her would not be appropriate here.

  16. Amazing how many infallible experts
    (on all sides)
    there that
    can't agree with each other....

    If all else fails,
    fall back on slander,gossip and backbiting.